I don't often answer tags and in this post I may offend several of my friendly bloggers. But Nancy tossed a gauntlet down on my perspective of feminism knowing that her and I, even as I consider us good friends, are diametrically opposite in most all political beliefs. So as I squint my eyes and press my lips looking at this screen, how will I respond to this question...
What five things can I thank feminism for?
First off I was raised by women. No not that way. I was in a car accident and lost my memory when I was 16. Sometime I will have to tell that fairly amazing story. As I recovered at home my mom, a teacher, and several of my friends, mostly girls since the dudes didn't care, helped me in every aspect of my cognitive, emotional and physical recovery. So I feel that I was imprinted upon by this group of female friends in a way that most men don't understand.
Knowing that and knowing that I am a conservative I find today's feminism to be in stark contrast to most of my firmly held beliefs. Long ago the women's suffrage movement was inspirational and motivating but its been a century since a woman like Susan B. Anthony has appealed across political parties and thirty years since professional barriers were broken. The feminist movement of today is more in tune with Marxism.
I thought long and hard on the question, jotted some notes and went home. I asked Mistress, knowing I might be picking a fight, "What am I thankful for feminism for?" It was interesting but in the end she said many of the things that I had already put in the post. So if I can thank Nancy for one thing, she gave Mistress and I a great evening of dialogue on a deep subject.
When I got into the office the next morning I went to our office pool and asked some young ladies and one older gay male if they considered themselves feminists and spoke with a vendor who took a Feminism in the 21st Century class at ASU last year. All of them said they would not define themselves or each other as feminists. I asked why and they expressed that feminism today is a choice whose ideals can be reached in more mainstream methods, it also has negative connotations for women their age, and in this century it is not necessary for them to have a label to define a womans strong sense of self worth. Nor do any of them feel they are limited in things they want socially or financially such as the feminist movement expressed over thirty years ago.
The real fact of the matter is I don't think women in general between 18-40 years old define themselves as feminist. The women I asked point blank, "Do you consider yourself a feminist?", all scrunched up their faces and vigorously shook their heads saying emphatically, "No. Do you think I am a feminist?" I don't think that they refute feminism and what it has done for them, but in this age it is such an amorphous statement, meaning it defines form. Feminists of today teach that feminism is a deeply personal thing for each woman which is really just saying, "We don't really have any national or political policy we can all agree on so fight for what you 'feel' is right".
The woman's suffrage movement of the early twentieth century most importantly gave women the right to vote. The feminist movement of the sixties and early seventies stood more for legal, sexual and professional equality. The problem with todays feminism is that they achieved all their tenets legally or otherwise two decades ago and the consciousness of todays woman has moved on. Are their still Good Ole Boy societies? Yes. Do misogynist's still exist? Yes. Does that mean women today are abridged of rights to earn and live a full life. Hardly. Not like fifty years ago.
A thoughtful comment from my gay friend is that current Gen. X and Gen. Y women do not consider themselves feminists because one current view of feminism is prescribed to militant lesbians. But when I asked him if he felt lesbians considered themselves more feminist than lesbian, he was stumped at first and ultimately said no.
I can see why. The leaders of the feminist movement today still make claims that "men oppress women" when more women are graduating from college today than men. I asked all the women if they had heard of Title 9 and over half said no, which is terrible and quite sad in my opinion. When in 2007 Condaleeza Rice is Secretary of State, Nancy Pelosi is the third most powerful person in the country and Oprah Winfrey is wealthier and has more global influence than some nations. The ideals of equality between sexes have been reached by law, enlightenment or broken by strong willed women. All that holds back any woman of today is her own will power and imagination.
Women today are disconnected from the old definitions of feminism because they never had to fight for the right to vote or lived in a society that was centered on men being the bread winner and them being regulated to secondary status. Those 'fights' are over. There is really just one last refuge for feminism and that is through subverting mainstream consciousness with progressive ideas. In the future they will continue to target education and development programs that feminize little boy's and profile specific messages like CODE:PINK's anti-war crusade and similar direct action protests.
After all this it might seem that I am not thankful for anything coming from feminism. Not so. The originators of the feminist movement brought the right to vote to an important part of our society. It gave women the ability to go to school and be who they want to be and do what they want to do in life. Women today are competitive in almost every profession which is a great thing for this country. With freedom and liberation women can express themselves physically, socially and emotionally without any repercussions which is no longer refreshing but commonplace. I not a fan of Title 9 but I thank God everyday for female triathletes.
And thats five.
What five things can I thank feminism for?
First off I was raised by women. No not that way. I was in a car accident and lost my memory when I was 16. Sometime I will have to tell that fairly amazing story. As I recovered at home my mom, a teacher, and several of my friends, mostly girls since the dudes didn't care, helped me in every aspect of my cognitive, emotional and physical recovery. So I feel that I was imprinted upon by this group of female friends in a way that most men don't understand.
Knowing that and knowing that I am a conservative I find today's feminism to be in stark contrast to most of my firmly held beliefs. Long ago the women's suffrage movement was inspirational and motivating but its been a century since a woman like Susan B. Anthony has appealed across political parties and thirty years since professional barriers were broken. The feminist movement of today is more in tune with Marxism.
I thought long and hard on the question, jotted some notes and went home. I asked Mistress, knowing I might be picking a fight, "What am I thankful for feminism for?" It was interesting but in the end she said many of the things that I had already put in the post. So if I can thank Nancy for one thing, she gave Mistress and I a great evening of dialogue on a deep subject.
When I got into the office the next morning I went to our office pool and asked some young ladies and one older gay male if they considered themselves feminists and spoke with a vendor who took a Feminism in the 21st Century class at ASU last year. All of them said they would not define themselves or each other as feminists. I asked why and they expressed that feminism today is a choice whose ideals can be reached in more mainstream methods, it also has negative connotations for women their age, and in this century it is not necessary for them to have a label to define a womans strong sense of self worth. Nor do any of them feel they are limited in things they want socially or financially such as the feminist movement expressed over thirty years ago.
The real fact of the matter is I don't think women in general between 18-40 years old define themselves as feminist. The women I asked point blank, "Do you consider yourself a feminist?", all scrunched up their faces and vigorously shook their heads saying emphatically, "No. Do you think I am a feminist?" I don't think that they refute feminism and what it has done for them, but in this age it is such an amorphous statement, meaning it defines form. Feminists of today teach that feminism is a deeply personal thing for each woman which is really just saying, "We don't really have any national or political policy we can all agree on so fight for what you 'feel' is right".
The woman's suffrage movement of the early twentieth century most importantly gave women the right to vote. The feminist movement of the sixties and early seventies stood more for legal, sexual and professional equality. The problem with todays feminism is that they achieved all their tenets legally or otherwise two decades ago and the consciousness of todays woman has moved on. Are their still Good Ole Boy societies? Yes. Do misogynist's still exist? Yes. Does that mean women today are abridged of rights to earn and live a full life. Hardly. Not like fifty years ago.
A thoughtful comment from my gay friend is that current Gen. X and Gen. Y women do not consider themselves feminists because one current view of feminism is prescribed to militant lesbians. But when I asked him if he felt lesbians considered themselves more feminist than lesbian, he was stumped at first and ultimately said no.
I can see why. The leaders of the feminist movement today still make claims that "men oppress women" when more women are graduating from college today than men. I asked all the women if they had heard of Title 9 and over half said no, which is terrible and quite sad in my opinion. When in 2007 Condaleeza Rice is Secretary of State, Nancy Pelosi is the third most powerful person in the country and Oprah Winfrey is wealthier and has more global influence than some nations. The ideals of equality between sexes have been reached by law, enlightenment or broken by strong willed women. All that holds back any woman of today is her own will power and imagination.
Women today are disconnected from the old definitions of feminism because they never had to fight for the right to vote or lived in a society that was centered on men being the bread winner and them being regulated to secondary status. Those 'fights' are over. There is really just one last refuge for feminism and that is through subverting mainstream consciousness with progressive ideas. In the future they will continue to target education and development programs that feminize little boy's and profile specific messages like CODE:PINK's anti-war crusade and similar direct action protests.
After all this it might seem that I am not thankful for anything coming from feminism. Not so. The originators of the feminist movement brought the right to vote to an important part of our society. It gave women the ability to go to school and be who they want to be and do what they want to do in life. Women today are competitive in almost every profession which is a great thing for this country. With freedom and liberation women can express themselves physically, socially and emotionally without any repercussions which is no longer refreshing but commonplace. I not a fan of Title 9 but I thank God everyday for female triathletes.
And thats five.
10 comments:
I hate to ask why you're not a fan of Title IX, but I suspect it has more to do with your general political view on policy than what (and who) the policy has produced.
From a chick's point of view (I'm thankful that I can call myself a chick, because that's how feminism has empowered me) I can tell you that without the political might of stuff like Title IX there would be a whole lot fewer Triathletes - and they'd mostly be lesbians.
just sayin'.
well written... and i agree with most of your post.
as for title IX... without title ix, i wouldn't have been afforded the opportunity that i had for an education. my parents would not have been able to pay for me to go to school, and quite frankly, while education was important to me, i doubt i would have ended up leaving my small town. going to school on a sports scholarship has opened more doors to me than i had ever dreamed.
now, the problem with title ix on the college level now is not so much a problem with equality, as it is with money. there's just not the money (with the exception of maybe 15 schools in the ENTIRE country) to add more women's programs to keep the school in line with the men's programs. the solution to this has been to cut men's programs to make sure you're in line with equality. this was not what title ix was created for. it's about for giving women an opportunity... not about denying men the opportunity. and i think that it extends into the workplace.
i will not deny that title ix has benefitted me in school and in my career, but i also know that i've worked hard for everything i've been given. i do not expect a free ride just because i'm a woman. and nothing pisses me off more than running into women that are like that... except for maybe running into men that think that the only way i got to where i am in life is because i'm a woman. it's not fair. it downplays everything i've done with my life. it overlooks my upbringing. and what my mother accomplished.
it's true that title ix has some flaws, but for the most part, i think it's a positive step for women. you're right, women are graduating at a higher rate than men. why is that? are men entering the workforce early? are they not being given equal opportunities and chances in grade school? are we not fostering a positive environment for the future male leaders in our society?
just a few thoughts.
DPR- I appreciate that you call yourself a Chick. It is empowering.
Knowing what Nytro's job is, I know we both benefit from Title 9 one way or another in real life. So its not surprising that we agree.
The fact that young women have an avenue for education and physical fitness at the college level is a testament to the feminist movement. That most of the women I talked to today, in a health club, didn't know what it was doesn't surprise me.
The lesbian commentary is something I think was important but not definitive in any way or solely my interpretation of modern feminism. I got that response from almost every woman I talked to.
Well written, Comm! We have guests so my normal reading room (the guest bathroom) is in use, so I used a different library and picked up an old triathlete mag - lo and behold, a short article by the Comm about the Tri-Alliance! I know it's very old news, but since I'm relatively new to the blog scene, it was very cool to see. A very belated Congrats on your publication!
thanks bigun. I was pretty proud of that.
Thanks for taking on the challenge!!
Not sure why you felt a need to do a straw poll instead of just presenting your own POV, though.
Well I parced this down quite a bit but had all my thoughts written before I left for the night.
I decided to go one step further since I had the time and be justified, have quantified or reconsider additional thoughts on "why I as a man would be thankful for feminism". I think certainly women have benefited more personally from feminism that I have as a guy.
Be quite sure Nancy that all the comments and thoughts on feminism are my own POV and written before speaking with others on the topic.
My thoughts on feminism portrayed as being co-opted by lesbians is part of my POV but when that is confirmed by an older gay male and several straight women in their 20's and 30's w/o my suggestion then its a more powerful dialog in my post.
Re-read my last paragraph and you'll see my 5 answer list.
Comm, this was incredibly well written and extremely true. I too get rankled when called a feminist , I did a post on it here: http://stepawayfromthecake.blogspot.com/2007/03/not-so-successful-today.html
Feminism kind of reminds me of unions, they were good in their day but have pretty much outlived their usefulness now.
The only part I would question is the Title IX. I was in jr. high when it was enacted and I was the girl going, "I want to play football" which I always had wanted to do:) Anyway, it opened up a world to me I didn't know existed. Has it gone wrong - of coure, like every government program. But I think the basis is a great idea.
Nicely done!
well done!
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