One of my tri goals this year is to have my swim mechanics analyzed on digicam by a swim coach. I get the opportunity this Thursday which is cool. While having a dialouge with the coach she explained to me that for a little more money I can get a custom program that includes a more thorough program to follow. I am hip to that and I understand how training works. I am not opposed to it, except for one thing....she is a total immersion instructor. All her drills and swim philosophy's come from this program.The first photo at right is from a TI book. The second an olympic swimmer and apparantly no olympic swimmer uses TI. I think the majority of swimmers are not using TI, not that thats a negative against the program, only that I personally have never done it and am conflicted about switching over with such a big race coming up.
I am not anti-TI. I think there is some really good ideas behind it. I know that some of the
information that has been related to me in regards to T.I. is over-exaggerated on both the positive and negative aspects. I know that I have no formal training experience in swimming and an instructor that can decrease my time and increase my efficiency in my ironman swim is worth an investment.But I am a little concerned about being less than 100 days from Florida. Right now with my stroke I can still complete a 2.4 mile swim, though slowly. Turning over to a whole new paradigm in swimming could give me some unease in my swim ability.
What are your experiences with Total Immersion?
Would YOU completely switch over to TI this close to an Ironman or ask for help with coaching from a traditional freestyle stroke point of view?
15 comments:
I've read a little through the Total Immersion books. I think the concepts of technique in TI are very good and sound, but the concepts of training in TI are flawed.
The notions of being more streamlined, staying long in the water, front quandrant swimming, and pressing the buoy/T are all good, solid concepts. What I don't really believe in is that you can get in the pool and simply do drills and only swim until you're tired before you can get out. That just isn't going to cut it for most folks. You have to swim tired, just like you have to pedal tired and run tired. Without pushing through that uncomfortable envelope, you won't gain any muscular endurance and won't decrease those swim splits.
My advice would be to use TI to learn proper swimming technique and form. But instead of simply doing drills and getting out, do the drills during warm up and concentrate on keeping good form for your main sets. That gives you the best of both worlds and is really what I think athletes need to do to improve on their swimming ability.
Comm,
I've tried some of the TI theory, albeit without a coach or video and that whole rolling thing kinda has me freaked out. It seems I use more energy rolling from side to side to "stay skinny", that would be better used propelling me forward. I don't think I would do it right now. After all, you can fly on the bike, and when your leg is healthy, you got the run down cold. You can make up any "perveived deficencies (sic) that you have when you get to dry ground.
A.
There are position components and propulsion components to swimming. TI deals mostly with position, so in that regard it does a good job. I took TI lessons 6 years ago, and seeing as how I had never had formal swim instruction, they were helpful.
However, the position stuff can only take you so far given where you are starting, but it's better than nothing, having seen some of your swim times.
I agree with Chris--you can't "just" do drills--there is an endurance component to IM swimming, and the deal is you want to swim the 2.4 economically and with good form. So you still have to practice swimming with good form! Which is not necessarily drilling.
All that being said, might I suggest another cheap alternative--go here: http://cruciblefitness.com/etips/swim1a.htm and for $15 you get an eBook complete with video that shows you drills to use and gives you suggestions for how to incorporate them into your swim training.
I personally do 200 yds. of drills every swim session during the warmup, and early in the season, one workout per week will be primarily drills.
No, it is not too late to do something about your swimming, and no I would not advocate doing 100% drill work. You need a blend, and it wouldn't hurt to get a little TI coaching (you will see some TI-like stuff in Rich's book), but you might just be better off with getting the local Master's coach to have a look at you and make some drill recommendations.
It would not hurt to try this. It isn't like your giving up your old style and starting everything new. As you learn the new position it will slowly be implimented or blended in with your present style. This will take time and you will change slowly. Kinda like a golf swing. You don't go to a lesson and lose your old swing and walk out with a new one. Good Luck.
I completed the TI work shop by private instruction. It helped my swimming but remember one thing... Completing drills in a pool or lake by yourself and being able to mimic that stroke while your fighting off other swimmers are two different things. I not saying it can't be done...I'm not the strongest swimmer but it's difficult to keep a nice stream lined position with 2,000 of your closest friends on top of you!
Comm, I got the TI book earlier this year and followed it. It helped me a lot. I hadn't swam in 30 years so it was good. I really liked the positioning information, that definetly helped.
Last month I took a stroke clinic and the instructor pointed out the flaws with TI. For example, the rolling. TI says you should roll from side to side to stay streamlined in the water. My instructor showed us how much energy that uses. But if you work on extending your arm right after entry you will naturally roll slightly becoming very streamline and using little additional energy.
Anyway, I think (as apparently most people do) that it definetly has it's pluses. I think your time would be better spent having someone evaluate your stroke now and give you some pointers to make it more efficient. If you can swim 2.4 miles you're doing something right. You probably just need a little tweaking to make you more fishlike :)
Personally, I don't think I would want to undertake a large change like that 100 days out from IM. But that's my $.02. Good Luck.
i don't remember being captured in that olympic shot... man, i have a nice high elbow.
i've had one TI lesson one-on-one. and it was great. but, every lesson with a coach can be great.
right now, i'm focused on swimming in a wetsuit in an ironman. things i'm practicing are 'getting feet' (drafting), sighting, and swimming as efficiently as possible.
i still like the 'Going Long' test... if you can swim 1000 yards in 19 minutes -- worry more about your engine than your stroke. keep drilling, and keep workin' the problem (it's a stroke like in golf -- you work it forevah), but make sure your endurance is gonna be race ready.
p.s. i'm thinkin' about getting that keyfob scanner for TP, you recommend it?
What is the golden rule? No changes this close to an A race.
I am not totally against you taking some pointers from a coach, but to try to incorporate all of TI's philosophies this close to Florida would be horrendous.
Like others have said...work on the motor.
Pick up some pointers here and there, but you have got the baseline to get you where you need to be come November.
The Olympic swimmers aren't swimming in the ocean. If you can apply the roll technique to your stroke, you will save so much energy in the ocean. I'm a competitive pool swimmer and I have my pool stroke engrained in my being. I've tested the TI techniques in the ocean (many times while I lived in Hawaii) and it just feels more natural.
I say definite yes to practicing the techniques in your stroke. Keep the endurance by applying the drills directly to your stroke rather than a session full of one sided drills and no acutal swimming.
Any good advice is GOOD advice. It doesn't matter what doctrine the instructor comes from. That's what I think. If the swim stroke analysis and pointers given to you by the coach make you a faster and more efficient swimmer then that's all that matters. I wouldn't get wrapped up in the T.I. vs "this other medthod" thing.
And no, I don't think it's ever too late to get good instruction.
Stay tuned...
Well, here's my two cents worth. I've been using TI almost since I started. TI will do two things; 1) you WILL swim faster and 2) you will swim farther with less effort. There is no question in my mind that TI would help you. However, I feel that TI does not make you a FAST swimmer. Yes, you will get FASTER, but you will never be FAST. That is why Olympic swimmers don't use it. It isn't really about top speed, so much as it is about top efficiency. Dude, you'll be cranking major miles in November. My opinion is that I want as much energy as possible to put towards the ride and run. I can honestly say, after my Ironman swim, I was really not tired. I was literally breathing through my nose. TI makes me feel like I can swim forever, albeit, not super fast. But, I'm not slow. I think 100 days is plenty of time to improve your stroke, especially with professional help. I hope this helps, but probably not. Call if you ever want to talk about it. You know my number.
Benny
Benny has been helping me with my stroke since the beginning of the year. He has had me working on TI drills and I must say that it has tremendously helped. Hubby bought the dvd to help him and by doing the drills he has improved immensely. His bouyancy is the biggest improvement so far.
I agree with Benny that it helps you expend less energy, and I am a little faster, but still slow comparatively, so I guess that is what you need to consider.
I agree also with some afore mentioned comments. As someone who has gone through numerous sessions of just drills in the beginning, I now incorporate the drills in my warmup and then work on my swim fitness. It works for me and the drills have helped me gain confidence in those freakouts.
I think that there is a lot of value in TI as a triathlete, saved energy being top on my list, but I am not one who follows any method of teaching 100%. I take what works for me and incorporate into my hodge podge style. I am comfortable with that.
Let us know how it works for you.
Wow. Lots of comments. I've done traditional and TI swimming. To be fair, I learned TI from a DVD. TI does a great job teaching body balance. What struck me was how each drills teaches skills in a non-threatening "sneaky" manner, especially for people with no swimming background.
It really seems to depend on which style of instruction works for you. I think the best way to improve swim technique is to work with a live person, regardless of their style.
TI took me from 50 meters and dying to completing a half-iron swim with minimal effort. I'm a HUGE fan; however, incorporating the drills and stroke changes in the build and peak periods for an ironman seem impractical. IMHO it is best begun in the prep or base period.
Brett from Zen and the Art of Triathlon is a swimmer and has strong feelings on this a few podcasts back, and I think I agree with him. If you look at the founder of TI, he has it wired. The best combination to make one both efficient and fast is TI training and masters swim team. That is the plan for greyhound 2.0
U are opening a big can of stuff here, Comm.
Usually when I throw the word TI out, I get two responses.
i) Ppl who hates it and say it is just a product and a marketing tool.
ii) Ppl who raves by it and say it will improve your swimming.
For me, I learn to swim freestyle when I was a kid. But afterwards i never touch the pool. I only picked up freestyle last nov. I found a TI coach and we meet up once a month and he give me the drills i need to do an di do them. Since I relearnt freestyle under TI, I don't know the normal way of freestyle swimming.
I see TI as a better way for swimming b/c I want to learn to swim more efficiently. Someone once mention it swimming TI is like riding a bike with aerobars.
I would suggest finding a TI coach and have him see how u swim. Tell him that you are in a race soon and see what tips he can give to improve your swim stroke.
It takes years to be a better swimmer. I figure it will be a few years before i consider myself as a good swimmer. Don't expect TI to suddenly turn u into a fish. But it will help u get closer to one.
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